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| sebhub | good morning | 01:54 |
|---|---|---|
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| arvind_khadri | Hi, from where can I clone the git repo. No private repo in github | 07:14 |
| sebhub | http://git.rtems.org/ | 07:35 |
| lcpfnvcy | cdcs: thanks for the response | 07:35 |
| lcpfnvcy | 12:18 < lcpfnvcy> mmorning | 07:35 |
| lcpfnvcy | 12:19 < lcpfnvcy> does rtems have something similar to vmware esx | 07:35 |
| lcpfnvcy | 12:36 < cdcs> Hello | 07:35 |
| lcpfnvcy | 12:37 < cdcs> if i understand you question correctly: | 07:35 |
| lcpfnvcy | 12:37 < cdcs> No it does not. But several hypervisors support RTEMS as a virtualized operating system. | 07:35 |
| lcpfnvcy | little late | 07:35 |
| lcpfnvcy | :( | 07:35 |
| sebhub | hm, this was for arvind_khadri | 07:36 |
| arvind_khadri | sebhub, thanks | 07:36 |
| sebhub | and also http://wiki.rtems.org/wiki/index.php/Git | 07:37 |
| verm__ | the github repo will be up in a week or two | 08:13 |
| verm__ | i've been busy with other things | 08:13 |
| cdcs | lcpfnvcy, No problem ;) | 08:14 |
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| sebhub | nice, how will it sync with the OAR repo? | 08:14 |
| verm__ | i wrote something a month back | 08:17 |
| verm__ | it'll be realtime once the commit is done o the master it'll push to github | 08:17 |
| verm__ | need time to set it up | 08:17 |
| sebhub | ok, so its automati | 08:17 |
| sebhub | c | 08:17 |
| verm__ | oh, of course | 08:17 |
| verm__ | i'll get it up by the end of the month hopefully | 08:18 |
| verm__ | this way gsoc students can use github over googlecode if they want | 08:18 |
| sebhub | its always good to have backups | 08:18 |
| verm__ | well, it provides a way for users to easily track the repo | 08:19 |
| verm__ | and they can publically store their repo so others can watch it similar to how we handle personal repos | 08:20 |
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| gedare | good morning | 09:33 |
| gedare | A0Sheds: i view the two projects (stm32 and beagleboard) as rather similar. Both offering support for open hardware. Beagleboard also has a quite large user community especially among hobbyists / open-source enthusiasts | 09:34 |
| A0Sheds | gedare: the stm32 will have millions of users | 09:35 |
| A0Sheds | mostly large OEMs in China will develop with it | 09:35 |
| A0Sheds | DrJoel understood the significance of what is going on here with replacing 20 years of closed firmware in a laptop | 09:36 |
| A0Sheds | i thought that is why he asked us to fid a student | 09:36 |
| A0Sheds | fid/find | 09:36 |
| gedare | it is | 09:36 |
| A0Sheds | but i don't want to waste anymore time | 09:37 |
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| weiY | hi, gedare. how about the process of gsoc review? | 09:43 |
| gedare | hey weiY: it's coming along. i think the announcements come in a week | 09:44 |
| cdcs | Both the STM32 and OMAP4 projects expect an RTEMS port to an ARM cortex M3, although different BSPs | 09:45 |
| weiY | ok. and the mentor of the rtems is enough for all students? | 09:45 |
| weiY | it seems that there are so many students with good proposal than past years | 09:46 |
| QingPei | and there is a OMAP gsoc project already.. | 09:46 |
| gedare | weiY: we're a little thin but not too bad | 09:46 |
| weiY | good news. | 09:47 |
| gedare | omap4 is less about the bsp and more about the AMP/IPC framework and SMP on ARM | 09:49 |
| gedare | the stm32 project is more about peripherals and getting it to work with small targets | 09:49 |
| cdcs | yup, i know. What i don't know is how much of the BSP development will overlap with STM32 | 09:50 |
| gedare | i think quite little unless they happen to share similar SOC peripherals | 09:50 |
| QingPei | i think the omap4 project have much overlap work with beagleboard | 09:51 |
| QingPei | since it should add BSP support for OMAP at first | 09:51 |
| cdcs | the beagleboard project will target Cortex A8 while the OMAP project will target the CortexM3 | 09:52 |
| A0Sheds | now that the stm32f patch is public much of the RTEMS work is done | 09:54 |
| cdcs | therefore i don't expect much overlap | 09:54 |
| gedare | isn't beagleboard/beaglebone using a uniproc. design? | 09:54 |
| A0Sheds | Google just published a working library of EC routines for the cortex M3 | 09:54 |
| gedare | link? | 09:54 |
| A0Sheds | we have Uwe's open stm32 library | 09:54 |
| A0Sheds | and we also have openEC that may be ported to arm32 | 09:55 |
| A0Sheds | http://git.chromium.org/gitweb/?p=chromiumos/platform/ec.git;a=tree;f=chip;h=fab28b9e1ec6b544ed20d386984de3249a06bcb2;hb=HEAD | 09:55 |
| A0Sheds | so a lot has changed in a week | 09:55 |
| gedare | nice | 09:55 |
| gedare | yeah. for rtems much of that is superfluous / application level | 09:56 |
| gedare | rather much that remains | 09:56 |
| gedare | just glueing things together | 09:56 |
| A0Sheds | i wish they would have been public weeks ago vs just sitting on it :) | 09:56 |
| gedare | which is a good bit of work | 09:56 |
| gedare | lol yes | 09:56 |
| gedare | maybe that is why they didn't accept you guys :/ | 09:56 |
| A0Sheds | 80% of the project is done now | 09:56 |
| gedare | (i doubt they have that much coordination) | 09:56 |
| A0Sheds | now it's just supporting more flavors of the cortex m3/m4 with RTEMS | 09:57 |
| A0Sheds | drivers, peripherals | 09:57 |
| gedare | the google code is bsd which is license compatible that is nice for rtems | 09:57 |
| gedare | yeah | 09:57 |
| A0Sheds | optimization for tinyRTEMS | 09:57 |
| gedare | and maybe some tinyRTEMS work | 09:57 |
| gedare | right. | 09:57 |
| gedare | we still may ask for the slot so that the student can do drivers/peripherals and tinyRTEMS work | 09:59 |
| gedare | but i wouldn't hold my breath | 09:59 |
| A0Sheds | we need a working laptop asap | 09:59 |
| A0Sheds | so this might be done by june 1 | 10:00 |
| A0Sheds | to show at computex | 10:00 |
| weiY | hi gedare. whether the student slots assigned to rtems was announced? | 10:06 |
| gedare | i don't believe the # is public data. | 10:06 |
| weiY | oh, what is the meaning of # | 10:07 |
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| QingPei | # means the slot number, i guess | 10:15 |
| weiY | yeah, i think so. i think it should be ##, haha | 10:18 |
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| *** ChanServ sets mode: +o DrJoel | 14:34 | |
| gedare | howdy drjoel. | 14:56 |
| DrJoel | hey.. been busy offline .. and then had a power supply in a PC at home die overnight. :( | 14:57 |
| gedare | that's not fun. better than a hard drive though | 14:58 |
| gedare | things settling at all for you yet? | 14:58 |
| DrJoel | this week should be a bit better. Michele is still in a lot of pain and needs help. | 15:01 |
| DrJoel | as if a dead power supply isn't bad enough.. the one I bought was DOA. | 15:03 |
| DrJoel | I knew because we had a spare one here at OAR I tested with | 15:03 |
| gedare | ouch | 15:03 |
| DrJoel | they looked surprised when I returned it .. but Jeff said it has happened to him there also | 15:04 |
| DrJoel | funny to think that a 3Ghz dual core with 4GB RAM could be 4 years old | 15:04 |
| peerst | DrJoel: Hi | 15:05 |
| peerst | DrJoel: what do you think about kqueues in RTEMS? | 15:06 |
| gedare | verm__ suggested that ummm what did we say... | 15:07 |
| gedare | we ended up linking them from http://wiki.rtems.org/wiki/index.php/RTEMSSystemEvents | 15:08 |
| peerst | thing is Erlang needs either a working select, poll or kqueues | 15:09 |
| DrJoel | I remember not knowing enough to have a final opinion .. but an open to anything that makes porting easier | 15:09 |
| peerst | At the moment we have neither | 15:09 |
| peerst | select only works with sockets | 15:09 |
| peerst | poll + kqueues doesn't exist | 15:09 |
| peerst | and the select implementation looks like a hack to me | 15:10 |
| gedare | is kqueue synchronous? | 15:10 |
| gedare | (from the userland side) | 15:11 |
| peerst | what exactly do you mean by synchronous? | 15:11 |
| gedare | actually it doesn't matter / make sense. either the user will sleep on the event or poll it | 15:11 |
| peerst | yeah I was confused ... since stuff like kqueue select and poll are mostly used to make stuff more asynchronous | 15:12 |
| DrJoel | peerst.. then kqueues is important.. I personally want RTEMS to be a strong platform for as many languages as possible | 15:12 |
| DrJoel | does the wiki page make it clear that kqueues are important for Erlang? | 15:12 |
| peerst | DrJoel: thing is we very probably have customer funding for porting kqueues | 15:13 |
| gedare | nope. we were unaware of what users might exist for the kqueues immediately. | 15:13 |
| gedare | we will adopt kqueues if it is done rihgt ;) | 15:13 |
| gedare | dumping a mess of bsd code into the kernel to implement kqueues is "not right"... | 15:13 |
| peerst | Sounds good | 15:13 |
| peerst | the bsd implemenation of kqueues is pretty neat IMHO | 15:14 |
| peerst | http://people.freebsd.org/~jlemon/papers/kqueue.pdf | 15:14 |
| gedare | it may be OK I lack the spare capacity to investigate thoroughly right now | 15:14 |
| gedare | if it just sits between an application and rtems then it's fine... | 15:15 |
| gedare | if we need to hook into rtems kernel services then we have to worry more | 15:15 |
| peerst | yep it does | 15:15 |
| peerst | no need to go quite deep | 15:15 |
| peerst | needs smallish support in every event source though | 15:15 |
| gedare | that will be fine | 15:16 |
| peerst | so basically everything that is a file descriptor | 15:16 |
| gedare | as I said.. done carefully and with feedback from the devel community it should be ok | 15:16 |
| peerst | additional event sources can easily be added optionally as user extensions | 15:16 |
| peerst | the hen and egg problem is that the customer paying for it will be disappointed if we have to maintain it separately forever | 15:17 |
| gedare | well it should be approached like the other bsd port works... | 15:18 |
| peerst | but if the generall concept of kqueues is accepted he'll take the risk | 15:18 |
| peerst | probably the port will be done by sebastian | 15:18 |
| gedare | the page i linked to kind of says it all | 15:18 |
| peerst | (sebhub) | 15:18 |
| gedare | we had an event notification system but it is "broken"... | 15:19 |
| gedare | we're open to better solutions | 15:19 |
| gedare | if kqueue solves everything then great | 15:19 |
| peerst | cool | 15:19 |
| DrJoel | I have nothing against any particular implementation of kqueues... and having a user who "cares" is enough to drive requirements in my mind. As long as we end up with something that is well documented and well tested | 15:19 |
| gedare | yup...and maintainable | 15:19 |
| gedare | dont' forget that one :0 | 15:19 |
| DrJoel | :) | 15:20 |
| DrJoel | any othe 'ibles? | 15:21 |
| peerst | kqueues are really low impact: you need a pointer of storage per event source, then you write 3 small so called filter functions and put pointers to them in a struct, the kqueues infrastructure takes care of the rest | 15:21 |
| peerst | so its really easy to add kqueue support for new filedescriptorish things | 15:22 |
| peerst | which is part of maintainability | 15:22 |
| gedare | :) i think it sounds good. | 15:22 |
| peerst | if you have time sometimes read the paper I linked to, its well written | 15:23 |
| peerst | if you lost the link its linked from the wikipedia entry of kqueue | 15:23 |
| gedare | i'll try | 15:24 |
| gedare | and i'll keep an eye out for development :0 | 15:24 |
| peerst | well announce it if we work out the monetary things with the customer and can start with it | 15:25 |
| gedare | ok great. | 15:25 |
| verm__ | rtems needs kqueue/kevent | 15:44 |
| peerst | :-) | 15:47 |
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| kiwichris | gedare, do all m68k bsps build with the 1/4 m68k patch ? | 18:43 |
| gedare | kiwichris: drjoel was testing that.. he ran into an unrelated bug during one of them though | 18:43 |
| gedare | i'm not sure what his status was.. i built one of the bsps.. lacking the infrastructure right now to try building all of them | 18:44 |
| kiwichris | Yes I also found the iess else where a few weeks go and managed to work around | 18:44 |
| kiwichris | less -> issue | 18:44 |
| gedare | i'd have to ask him to see what he managed to build. | 18:45 |
| kiwichris | Understood. I cannot get gdb for the PowerPC to build on MacOS. Everything else does | 18:45 |
| kiwichris | You can build on the RTEMS servers. | 18:45 |
| gedare | i'll have to figure that out | 18:45 |
| kiwichris | That patch is ok with me if it builds all m68k bsps | 18:45 |
| kiwichris | Also this just shows why we need a patch tool and have get all effect code to build before committing | 18:46 |
| gedare | yup. | 18:47 |
| gedare | and making this change has furhter convinced me that automake must die. | 18:47 |
| kiwichris | hah | 18:48 |
| gedare | half my effort in updating this set_vector code was modifying makefile.am | 18:48 |
| gedare | at least i could do it with sed mostly. | 18:48 |
| kiwichris | Feeble, real automake hackers use ed ;) | 18:49 |
| kiwichris | ... and boot their machine with dip switches | 18:49 |
| gedare | and press the turbo button to make it go fast. | 18:52 |
| kiwichris | I am now calling the makefile.am's and related m4 cruft a toxic zone. You only head in when you really need to and with maximum protection | 18:54 |
| kiwichris | If you slip and break through the surface you find yourself in black quick sand | 18:55 |
| gedare | if you're lucky. | 18:55 |
| gedare | someday i expect my bootstrap will go into infinite recursion and fill my hard drive | 18:55 |
| gedare | just a funny feeling i get | 18:55 |
| kiwichris | What is the area on Everest where the climbs must use ladders over gaps ? | 18:56 |
| gedare | no clue | 18:56 |
| gedare | sounds ominous though | 18:56 |
| kiwichris | Here is an interesting stat ..... | 19:02 |
| kiwichris | $ cat $(find . -name Makefile.am -o -name Makefile.in -o -name \*.m4 -o -name configure -o -name \*.ac ) | wc -l | 19:02 |
| kiwichris | 1510827 | 19:02 |
| gedare | ack | 19:03 |
| kiwichris | I suspect more lines in the autoconf/automake cruft we carry around than code | 19:03 |
| gedare | would be an interesting study | 19:03 |
| gedare | i wonder... | 19:03 |
| kiwichris | And that is not the cache stuff | 19:03 |
| kiwichris | I think | 19:04 |
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| gedare | well there is a slight difference between generated files and not, but only minorly so | 19:06 |
| kiwichris | Generate or not they exists. Generated files can have bugs just like any other piece of code. | 19:26 |
| kiwichris | The more lines the high the chance | 19:26 |
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| gedare | lol | 19:43 |
| gedare | ansic: 745153 (35.83%) | 19:44 |
| gedare | sh: 638451 (30.70%) | 19:44 |
| gedare | makefile: 551563 (26.52%) | 19:44 |
| gedare | m4: 73475 (3.53%) | 19:44 |
| gedare | asm: 38574 (1.85%) | 19:44 |
| gedare | ada: 26261 (1.26%) | 19:44 |
| gedare | cpp: 5248 (0.25%) | 19:44 |
| gedare | pascal: 814 (0.04%) | 19:44 |
| gedare | perl: 279 (0.01%) | 19:44 |
| gedare | thats with counting Makefile.in and Makefile.am as 'makefile' | 19:44 |
| gedare | and without the autom4te.cache | 19:44 |
| kiwichris | hah | 19:45 |
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| gedare | after running bootstrap obviously. | 19:45 |
| kiwichris | ywah | 19:45 |
| kiwichris | yeah | 19:46 |
| kiwichris | That piece of perl code is impossible to understand | 19:46 |
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| gedare | Totals grouped by language (dominant language first): | 19:54 |
| gedare | ansic: 745153 (87.00%) | 19:54 |
| gedare | asm: 38574 (4.50%) | 19:54 |
| gedare | makefile: 30083 (3.51%) | 19:54 |
| gedare | ada: 26261 (3.07%) | 19:54 |
| gedare | sh: 7086 (0.83%) | 19:54 |
| gedare | cpp: 5248 (0.61%) | 19:54 |
| gedare | m4: 2996 (0.35%) | 19:54 |
| gedare | pascal: 814 (0.10%) | 19:54 |
| gedare | perl: 279 (0.03%) | 19:54 |
| gedare | that's without bootstrapping | 19:54 |
| gedare | the moral is that we use almost twice as much generated code as we do what is written / stored in the repo | 19:54 |
| gedare | just for rtems building | 19:54 |
| kiwichris | I suspect this and while you can argue it is generated it is silly. | 19:55 |
| kiwichris | Another stat to collect would be the number of forks to build the everything. | 19:55 |
| kiwichris | I think we have about 5 per file compiled | 19:56 |
| kiwichris | sh + test + gcc + cc1 + asm | 19:56 |
| kiwichris | Actually that means 2 shell forks and not forks | 19:56 |
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| gedare | yeah | 20:04 |
| gedare | http://gedare-csphd.blogspot.com/2012/04/crufty-stuff.html | 20:12 |
| gedare | there you go :) | 20:12 |
| gedare | and im out. later | 20:12 |
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| sebhub | good morning | 03:00 |
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| Hesham | hey gedare | 11:36 |
| gedare | hello hesham | 11:36 |
| gedare | is your schoolwork going well? | 11:37 |
| Hesham | about rbheap , should i consider its implementation to the high level API or just mark it as future work ? | 11:37 |
| Hesham | yeah i have finished mid-term exams :) | 11:37 |
| gedare | nice | 11:37 |
| Hesham | thanks | 11:38 |
| gedare | i've been thinking about that same thing | 11:38 |
| Hesham | and ? | 11:39 |
| gedare | the problem we have to tackle is how to deal with memory management versus memory allocation | 11:39 |
| gedare | the rbheap is nice because it shows a very clear separation between management and allocation | 11:39 |
| Hesham | i think i will stuck with memory management in general in RTEMS | 11:39 |
| Hesham | yeah | 11:39 |
| gedare | right. the allocation shouldn't matter too much, except that if the management data structures reside together with the management structures then you cannot provide adequate protection mechanisms | 11:40 |
| gedare | take a look at how Region Manager uses its attributes and write a brief summary | 11:40 |
| Hesham | and where it saves its management data structures ? | 11:41 |
| gedare | it would be interesting to find out if the Region Manager can have a flexible way to specify its memory pool and whether there is space in the attribute set for specifying an allocator and whether protection migth be enabled at the Region level | 11:41 |
| Hesham | i think data structures the manage attributes of Region/Partition should be in separate area | 11:42 |
| gedare | and whether the Region API as-is can be left alone but extended with new functions to handle these features. | 11:42 |
| gedare | not necessarilly | 11:42 |
| gedare | for achieving protection yes | 11:42 |
| gedare | ok so.. | 11:43 |
| gedare | there is a distinction to make | 11:43 |
| Hesham | protection , allocation , attributes | 11:43 |
| gedare | between allocator management data structure and the Manager Object data structure | 11:43 |
| Hesham | exactly | 11:44 |
| gedare | allocators can either embed their management data within the memory region or have external structures | 11:44 |
| gedare | traditional heap (malloc) embeds management data before/after an allocated region | 11:44 |
| Hesham | and then set its attributes ? | 11:45 |
| gedare | don't worry about attributes yet | 11:45 |
| gedare | understand how allocation works | 11:45 |
| gedare | if you view the memory region as a large chunk then an allocator can do one of two things | 11:45 |
| gedare | it can set aside one chunk for management and the rest for handling allocation requests | 11:46 |
| gedare | or it can set aside the entire chunk for handling allocation requests and keep the management data co-located with the allocated blocks | 11:46 |
| gedare | malloc does the second approach | 11:46 |
| gedare | rbheap implements the first approach | 11:46 |
| gedare | partition manager implements the second approach because the partition objects reside on a linked list | 11:47 |
| gedare | region manager uses the score Heap which implements malloc so it uses the second approach | 11:47 |
| gedare | you cannot implement useful MMU-based protection / attributes using the second approach | 11:47 |
| Hesham | right | 11:47 |
| Hesham | so we should use first approach | 11:48 |
| gedare | We should support both approaches | 11:48 |
| gedare | and for the first approach we should offer the possibility of using hardware-based protection / attributes enforcement | 11:48 |
| Hesham | that's means Arenas and MMU | 11:49 |
| gedare | probably. how to hook the allocator up to the arena is unclear | 11:49 |
| Hesham | should we think about how to implement it now ? or just take in mind that Arenas would be used along with rbheap at the design time ? | 11:50 |
| gedare | we should consider it now | 11:51 |
| gedare | i believe it will help us to decide where to put the Arena code | 11:51 |
| gedare | most of which I think is written | 11:52 |
| Hesham | Then , it would be good if you provided me with any references/code that would help me | 11:52 |
| gedare | (other than the tasking problems) | 11:52 |
| Hesham | i had read about Partition / Region Managers at online library | 11:53 |
| gedare | I think a simple starting point is to read the code for partition and regions | 11:53 |
| gedare | cpukit/rtems/include/rtems/rtems/region.h and part.h are the headers | 11:53 |
| gedare | and cpukit/rtems/inline/rtems/rtems/region.inl and part.inl are their inline functions (if any) | 11:53 |
| gedare | and various files in cpukit/rtems/src/region* or part* are their functions | 11:54 |
| Hesham | is it well documented/commented ? | 11:54 |
| gedare | pretty well | 11:55 |
| Hesham | great | 11:55 |
| gedare | think about whether it would be possible to combine the implementations of the region and partition manager together...how much of the functionality is shared | 11:55 |
| Hesham | and ? | 11:56 |
| gedare | and write a small report with your findings | 11:56 |
| gedare | do you have a blog? | 11:56 |
| Hesham | yeah along time ago but i have not use it | 11:56 |
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| Hesham | i think i will use it now | 11:57 |
| gedare | that would be awesome | 11:57 |
| Hesham | then just how to combine region / partition manager in just one manager ? | 11:57 |
| gedare | not exactly like that | 11:57 |
| gedare | they belong to the Classic API so we cannot really change their interface functions | 11:57 |
| gedare | But what we might be able to do is to let them share a common implementation "under the covers" | 11:58 |
| gedare | In RTEMS we do this usually by implementing the common code in a Supercore manager. | 11:58 |
| Hesham | i see | 11:59 |
| Hesham | and what about heap management ? | 11:59 |
| gedare | That is going to be part of your analysis | 12:00 |
| gedare | What the two managers look like, what common features they have, and where they differ; including how they deal with memory management | 12:00 |
| gedare | Does that make sense? | 12:00 |
| Hesham | yeah , that would be head lines in my report | 12:01 |
| gedare | ok. in order to get some idea about how they might share implementations... | 12:01 |
| gedare | Look at the classic semaphores, posix semaphores, and score semaphores | 12:02 |
| gedare | that is a great example of sharing implementations | 12:02 |
| gedare | classic semaphores share code between semaphores or mutexes | 12:02 |
| gedare | and the posix semaphore also shares the implementation | 12:02 |
| gedare | and so the implementation is in the score. | 12:02 |
| Hesham | where i can find classic simaphores code ? | 12:03 |
| gedare | find cpukit/rtems/ -name sem.h | 12:05 |
| gedare | find cpukit/score -name coresem.h | 12:05 |
| gedare | find cpukit/score -name coremutex.h | 12:05 |
| gedare | find cpukit/posix -name semaphore.h | 12:06 |
| gedare | mainly the header files for classic managers reside at cpukit/rtems/include/rtems/*.h | 12:06 |
| gedare | inline routines are defined in cpukit/rtems/inline/rtems/*.inl | 12:06 |
| gedare | and source files are in cpukit/rtems/src/*.c | 12:06 |
| gedare | for score managers it is the same except in cpukit/score | 12:06 |
| gedare | and for posix but cpukit/posix | 12:06 |
| Hesham | i will review code soon as possible and when i am done with the report i will tell you | 12:08 |
| Hesham | when you expect i should finish the report ? | 12:08 |
| gedare | whenever. this is just something I was thinking about and think it is a great way to get your feet wet. obviously accepted students haven't been announced so if you want to wait to find out if you're in that is probably smart :) | 12:09 |
| gedare | i would say to make sure to deal with your school responsibilities and then schedule this in your free time | 12:10 |
| Hesham | I will start with it soon whether accepted or not :) | 12:13 |
| gedare | if you want to work on your report in a google doc you can share it with me and let me know when you make some good progress | 12:14 |
| gedare | then when you finish and i review it you can post it for the world | 12:14 |
| Hesham | i will do that | 12:15 |
| Hesham | thanks gedare :) | 12:16 |
| gedare | welcome thanks for asking. I've been pondering this for awhile and I think doing this exercise will be helpful for us both | 12:18 |
| Hesham | as you said , i'd like to get my feet wet | 12:19 |
| gedare | getting into the code is the best way | 12:20 |
| gedare | if you get stuck just ask questions here or on rtems-devel (make sure to include enough context so that everyone will understand your questions) | 12:20 |
| Hesham | ok | 12:21 |
| Hesham | off topic question , will you be a mentor this year ? | 12:22 |
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| gedare | hesham: yes I plan to be | 12:28 |
| Hesham | well , good luck then :) | 12:28 |
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| sebhub | good morning | 03:30 |
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| *** DrJoel changes topic to "Final countdown on student selection for GSOC 2012. Be loud and proud on the devel list. Make yourself stand out. :)" | 15:43 | |
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| gedare | kiwichris: you around? | 00:03 |
| kiwichris | yeap | 00:03 |
| gedare | i committed code from my student last year that provides a Linux library's API for scheduling | 00:04 |
| gedare | we put it in cpukit/libqos for lack of a better idea of where such a thing ought to live | 00:05 |
| kiwichris | What is qos ? | 00:05 |
| gedare | ralf complained and suggested cpukit/rtems, but i don't think that is quite right | 00:05 |
| kiwichris | I do not think rtems is correct. | 00:05 |
| gedare | it offers an interface for applications to handle task scheduling and make decisions about what to do in case of budget overruns and some other issues | 00:06 |
| gedare | when scheduled by the constant bandwidth server my student implemented | 00:06 |
| kiwichris | It is a compatibility API for Linux programs to be ported to RTEMS ? | 00:07 |
| gedare | http://aquosa.sourceforge.net/ | 00:07 |
| gedare | it's a compat for that or similar | 00:07 |
| gedare | a subset of that anyways | 00:08 |
| gedare | http://aquosa.sourceforge.net/aquosa-docs/aquosa-qosres/html/ | 00:08 |
| kiwichris | License ? | 00:08 |
| gedare | our code is proper licensed we just dupe the api calls | 00:08 |
| kiwichris | Ah ok. | 00:09 |
| gedare | which i'm pretty sure is perfectly legit fair use | 00:09 |
| kiwichris | Ok, so it is a schedular implementation that classic API and POSIX tasks could use ? | 00:09 |
| kiwichris | Yeah I would say so. | 00:09 |
| gedare | yeah check out sptests/spqreslib | 00:10 |
| kiwichris | Then I suggest libsched | 00:10 |
| gedare | okay | 00:10 |
| gedare | i like it. gives room to grow | 00:10 |
| kiwichris | If the score has an API to allow this we do not need to have this code in the score which is nice | 00:10 |
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| gedare | this is a wrapper over score services we implemnted | 00:11 |
| gedare | its a really small amount of code just typedefs and structs and inline functs | 00:11 |
| kiwichris | Yeah and sends a clear and definite message to users that this is encouraged | 00:11 |
| gedare | right | 00:11 |
| kiwichris | Does this mean the sched code is in the score ? | 00:11 |
| gedare | yeah hummm | 00:11 |
| kiwichris | Does it need to be ? | 00:11 |
| gedare | i think schedcbs or something | 00:11 |
| gedare | right now it does i may revisit this whole modular scheduling someday | 00:12 |
| kiwichris | Because a wrapper to an existing API may also reside in libcompat | 00:12 |
| gedare | i like that idea too | 00:13 |
| gedare | that fits with what we have done | 00:14 |
| kiwichris | I suggest libcompat is the one | 00:14 |
| kiwichris | Then libsched is available to move schedulers into at a later date | 00:14 |
| gedare | so that i'm clear, libcompat will be a new thing I'm introducing? | 00:14 |
| kiwichris | Yeah | 00:14 |
| gedare | okay great | 00:14 |
| kiwichris | I would respond to Ralf's email with the suggestion. | 00:14 |
| gedare | okay | 00:14 |
| kiwichris | The dir in libcompat is the name of the API provided | 00:15 |
| gedare | good idea before i spend any minutes on it :) | 00:15 |
| gedare | btw i wrote a small python script today to help me pull patches from my gmail | 00:15 |
| gedare | i'll post about it probably tomorrow. | 00:15 |
| kiwichris | Nice. | 00:16 |
| gedare | http://code.google.com/p/fetch-flagged-email/ | 00:16 |
| gedare | kiwichris; would it make any sense to advocate not using rtems/ as part of the include path? | 00:24 |
| gedare | ralf complained also about the include path for the API header. in some sense it makes sense to try minimizing application changes | 00:25 |
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| kiwichris | not sure | 00:41 |
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| gedare | ok. thanks for the input | 01:00 |
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| sebhub | good morning | 01:36 |
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| lcpfnvcy | moorning | 02:19 |
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| gedare | hi rtems | 10:53 |
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| gedare | uh oh i think i'm starting a fight :x | 11:21 |
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| peerst | gedare: ??? | 12:47 |
| gedare | heh. a little bit of an argument on the mailing list | 12:47 |
| gedare | nothing too bad | 12:47 |
| peerst | just went there ... fetching the popcorn | 12:48 |
| peerst | the microblaze thread? | 12:52 |
| peerst | or the quos stuff? | 12:56 |
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| gedare | peerst: both lol | 13:43 |
| peerst | ah so I found it ... not looking like a flamewar yet | 13:44 |
| gedare | the microblaze thread was the bad one. but i expect to get ralfed on the libcompat thread as a result of my adverse reaction to the microblaze stuff | 13:44 |
| gedare | nah i think it died out | 13:44 |
| DrJoel | the microblaze was a very fast Ralf response to Eric N and another person asking about Microblaze support. Eric had started a toolchain build on his own and Ralf was being nice | 13:48 |
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| sebhub | good morning | 01:51 |
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| lcpfnvcy | moorning | 02:44 |
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| kiwichris | sebhub, morning | 03:37 |
| kiwichris | I agree the coldfire fpu support should be demand enabled. | 03:37 |
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| sebhub | hi, im currently sit on a zoom evaluation board and track this issue | 03:48 |
| kiwichris | I use a chair !! ;) | 03:51 |
| kiwichris | What is a zoom board ? | 03:52 |
| sebhub | http://www.logicpd.com/products/system-on-modules/zoom-coldfire-litekit/ | 03:55 |
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| sebhub | ok, found the problem | 04:19 |
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| weiY | good night | 08:10 |
| sebhub | hi | 08:11 |
| weiY | the result of gsoc is more closing. very looking forward to it | 08:12 |
| weiY | Hi sebhub. recently in the devel-maillist there are lots of patches. does it indicate that the new version of rtems will be released? | 08:14 |
| sebhub | yes, but we have no release date yet | 08:15 |
| weiY | good news. if i was selected by rtems as a gsoc student i will also join the fight | 08:17 |
| sebhub | nice | 08:18 |
| weiY | sebhub, have you reviewed my proposal about the atomic support for rtems? what about your comments? | 08:21 |
| sebhub | sorry, it didn't look at it recently, but the overall impression is good | 08:22 |
| weiY | ok thank you for your review. in my original proposal i did not thought about the C11 standard atomic implementation, thank to your advice of using the C11 standard implementation as long-term plan | 08:25 |
| sebhub | i looked briefly at the current GCC implementation and was not satisfied with it | 08:28 |
| sebhub | i think we should use the one from freebsd | 08:28 |
| sebhub | kernel | 08:28 |
| weiY | yes, i think so. the atomic API from freebsd kernel we can refer. and the implementation from the netbsd kernel we can also consider | 08:29 |
| weiY | becasue the implementation of freebsd kernel is not guaranteed all the architecture smp safe | 08:30 |
| sebhub | is your last statement true for the netbsd implementation? | 08:33 |
| sebhub | freebsd is a quite mature smp platform | 08:33 |
| weiY | the netbsd kernel will guarante the architectures which support CAS instruction SMP safte. because all the atomic operations implementation on netbsd kernel is based on CAS | 08:36 |
| weiY | netbsd also supports mostly architectures SMP | 08:37 |
| sebhub | CAS is vulnerable to the ABA problem | 08:39 |
| sebhub | what i wanted to say is that CAS is not the only hardware means to support atomic operationos | 08:39 |
| sebhub | modern architectures use LL/SC for it | 08:40 |
| sebhub | i suppose the smp support is far more mature in freebsd than in netbsd | 08:40 |
| sebhub | and what do you mean with "smp safe"? | 08:40 |
| weiY | i mean the atomic operations is smp safe | 08:42 |
| sebhub | it don't see why there should be a difference between freebsd and netbsd | 08:43 |
| sebhub | this is only a property of the hardware | 08:44 |
| sebhub | you solve the consensus problem without hardware support | 08:45 |
| sebhub | you cannot solve | 08:45 |
| weiY | yes, from this perspective there are no difference | 08:46 |
| weiY | CAS is really has ABA problem. but not all the architecture has the LL/SC support | 08:47 |
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| sebhub | yes, we have to live with them ;-) | 08:48 |
| weiY | so we should implement atomic carefully for each architecture | 08:49 |
| weiY | overall the smp support on freebsd is more mature | 08:49 |
| sebhub | i would simply copy and paste it from freebsd and write some unit tests | 08:50 |
| weiY | yeah, it is a more reliable way | 08:53 |
| weiY | hi sebhub, you say the CAS is not only hareware means for atomic implementation. what your mean? | 08:54 |
| sebhub | some architectures like PowerPC or ARMv7 use LL/SC | 08:54 |
| weiY | yeah, you mean the LL/SC is also the CAS implementation? ok i understand | 08:55 |
| weiY | LL/SC can solve the ABA problem | 08:56 |
| sebhub | you can do more with LL/SC | 08:56 |
| sebhub | for RTEMS it doesn't matter | 08:57 |
| weiY | why doesn't matter | 08:57 |
| sebhub | we cannot change the hardware | 08:58 |
| weiY | yeah | 09:00 |
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| gedare | morning | 10:21 |
| cdcs | hi | 10:21 |
| sebhub | hi | 10:22 |
| sebhub | and good bye ;-) | 10:23 |
| gedare | heh. take care sebhub. | 10:24 |
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| weiY | bye | 10:35 |
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| QingPei | gedare: hi | 10:48 |
| gedare | hello qingpei | 10:49 |
| QingPei | monring.. | 10:49 |
| QingPei | morning... i mean | 10:49 |
| gedare | i saw your emails would you like to chat privately? | 10:49 |
| QingPei | yeah | 10:49 |
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| peerst | RTEMS|gedare: do you know the innards of the nfs client? | 14:28 |
| peerst | or does any here? | 14:29 |
| RTEMS|gedare | no best off on the list i think. | 14:29 |
| peerst | yeah the bug in file read I found will have to go to the list | 14:29 |
| peerst | currently I'm trying to understand the workings to fix it | 14:30 |
| RTEMS|gedare | i have little experience with any of the filesystems. | 14:30 |
| peerst | well sebhub would be the one | 14:31 |
| peerst | but hes off for the weekend | 14:31 |
| peerst | so I'm stuck until monday :-( | 14:31 |
| RTEMS|gedare | yeah sounds like it | 14:32 |
| *** RTEMS|gedare is now known as gedare | 14:40 | |
| kiwichris | peerst, what is the bug ? | 14:41 |
| gedare | a filesystem expert! | 14:41 |
| peerst | it reads maximum 8192 bytes | 14:41 |
| peerst | I'm porting code that gets the size of a file allocates a buffer and wants to read it all | 14:42 |
| peerst | but read returns 8192 | 14:42 |
| kiwichris | The read call ? | 14:43 |
| peerst | tried to write a wrapper for nfs_file_read() to loop in this case but it doesn't seem to read the right data (I don't see the files contents appear in my buffer) | 14:43 |
| kiwichris | as in POSIX type read ? | 14:43 |
| peerst | yeah the read call | 14:43 |
| peerst | yes | 14:43 |
| kiwichris | Ok ... | 14:44 |
| peerst | it is supposed to return as many bytes as requested for plain files | 14:44 |
| kiwichris | I have transfered 100's of Gigs of files to large hard disks when testing the RFS on a PC platform. It works | 14:44 |
| kiwichris | Do you have a shell running ? | 14:44 |
| peerst | I can make one run | 14:45 |
| kiwichris | PLease do and try 'cp', it will work. | 14:45 |
| peerst | maybe cp loops? | 14:45 |
| kiwichris | It is the POSIX API for read. It returns what it has and you need to piece the file together. | 14:45 |
| kiwichris | I suggest the big buffer for the file then a smaller say 8k one for the read | 14:45 |
| kiwichris | It does | 14:46 |
| kiwichris | cpukit/libmisc/shell then the cp file(s) | 14:46 |
| peerst | http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/man.cgi?query=read&apropos=0&sektion=2&manpath=FreeBSD+9.0-RELEASE&arch=default&format=html | 14:49 |
| peerst | "The system guarantees to read the number of bytes requested if the descriptor references a normal file that has that many bytes left before the end-of-file, but in no other case." | 14:50 |
| peerst | I'm not sure if POSIX guarantees it also but the code I'm porting runs on several Linuxes, FreeBSD, MacOSX, Solaris, VxWorks ... | 14:51 |
| kiwichris | I think the POSIX is better than the man page. The return value part is better. What I think it is referring to is devices like a socket or a /dev entry where other things can go wrong, eg a tape drive with a broken tape | 14:54 |
| kiwichris | NFS is over a network and the file will be broken up in to parts. | 14:54 |
| peerst | Just browsed over the posix def of read | 14:56 |
| peerst | can't find the plain files special case there | 14:57 |
| peerst | what bothers me a bit but I'm not sure yet: I think see the whole file transfered on the net ... | 14:59 |
| peerst | nevermind I take it back ... just went through the NFS trace again ... it only requests a block of 8192 | 15:04 |
| kiwichris | :) | 15:05 |
| kiwichris | There is a setting in NFS to change that size. I am sorry but I cannot remember what that was | 15:06 |
| peerst | well there would always be a limit ... | 15:10 |
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| peerst | kiwichris: I fixed it in the ported code now ... | 15:57 |
| peerst | works much better ... blowing its stack now | 15:58 |
| peerst | but much later | 15:58 |
| peerst | :-) | 15:58 |
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| soh_cah_toa | http://pastebin.com/r4z11ZP4 | 21:05 |
| soh_cah_toa | anybody understand what in the world that is about? :\ | 21:05 |
| soh_cah_toa | i can't seem to use a simulator on any architecture whatsoever besides sparc64 | 21:06 |
| soh_cah_toa | oh wow. i just realized i was debugging the ini.o object file not the hello.exe executable | 21:14 |
| soh_cah_toa | *init.o | 21:14 |
| soh_cah_toa | how embarrassing | 21:15 |
| soh_cah_toa | yet, now i get a different error. wonderful | 21:16 |
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| Hesham | hey | 08:28 |
| Hesham | i want to buy arm BSP and its core have MMU and is supported by RTEMS | 08:29 |
| Hesham | any suggestions ? | 08:29 |
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| A0Sheds | Hesham: stm32f patch was recently submitted | 11:22 |
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| gedare | hesham: i think sebhub suggested http://www.phytec.com/products/rdk/ARM-XScale/phyCORE-ARM9-LPC3250.html | 12:11 |
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| soh_cah_toa | hi guys :) | 18:27 |
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